This week’s edition of the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast features conversations with two people who participated in a Feb. 6 announcement by the Windsor-Detroit Bridge Authority (WDBA) of an additional $2.6 million being invested in 13 community projects as part of construction of the Gordie Howe International Bridge (GHIB).
First, Heather Grondin, vice president of corporate affairs and external relations for WDBA, talks about the community benefits program and why it’s so important.
The projects include cycling infrastructure added to Jefferson Avenue and Clark Street, making for a connection between the GHIB multiuse path and the City of Detroit’s Joe Louis Greenway.
Later, Mohammed Alghurabi, a Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT) senior project manager on the bridge project, talks about what it means to him to be able to demonstrate to residents that Canada and Michigan are delivering on promises to the community.
Projects announced for funding:
This week’s edition of the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast features conversations with two people who participated in a Feb. 6 announcement by the Windsor-Detroit Bridge Authority (WDBA) of an additional $2.6 million being invested in 13 community projects as part of construction of the Gordie Howe International Bridge (GHIB).
First, Heather Grondin, vice president of corporate affairs and external relations for WDBA, talks about the community benefits program and why it’s so important.
The projects include cycling infrastructure added to Jefferson Avenue and Clark Street, making for a connection between the GHIB multiuse path and the City of Detroit’s Joe Louis Greenway.
Later, Mohammed Alghurabi, a Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT) senior project manager on the bridge project, talks about what it means to him to be able to demonstrate to residents that Canada and Michigan are delivering on promises to the community.
Projects announced for funding:
Hello, welcome to the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast. I'm Jeff Cranston. Last week, on February 6th to be precise, the Winsor Detroit Bridge Authority announced $2.6 million more in community benefits. These are benefits to the neighborhoods on both sides of the border where the Gordy Howe International Bridge is being built, and they fund a variety of projects that are very important to those residents, including greenways and connections for pedestrian and cycling paths, and health initiatives and many other things. And so I spoke to Heather Grondin, who is the vice president of External Affairs for the Winsor Detroit Bridge Authority, about that and why the program is so important to the larger bridge project and how they decide who gets these benefits.
Speaker 2:And then later I talked to Mohamed Algarabi, who is MDAT's senior project manager on the bridge. He's been working closely with the Canadian government for a number of years to see this bridge through to fruition, and they can see the light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak, as the project winds down, so he'll talk about why it's so important to him that these benefits go forward and that MDAT and the Canadian government keep their promises to the communities which involved these community benefits right from the beginning, when the agreement was reached to build the bridge and the project began, so I hope you enjoy the conversation. Okay, heather Grondin, thank you again for agreeing to come on the podcast. I know this isn't your first time and I always appreciate talking to you about this incredible bridge that's going to mean so much to both of our countries and to trade between our state and Canada.
Speaker 1:It's my pleasure.
Speaker 2:And specifically this week. I wanted to talk about the community benefits. This is another round of community benefits. There have been several announced since the project began. This was $2.6 million to fund 13 projects on both sides of the border where the Gordy Howard International Bridge will land, and this is always very meaningful to the residents and the people in the communities. Can you just talk about why community benefits are part of this overall plan and how it works?
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure. Thanks, jeff. Going back, this has been a long project in the making and one of the most important documents that guides the delivery of the Gordy Howard International Bridge project is the crossing agreement which was signed by Michigan and Canada back in 2012. And in that document it specifically states that the project needs to contemplate integrating community benefits into the delivery of the Gordy Howard International Bridge. Now, it's only about a paragraph and a half in that document, so it gave us a lot of room to really explore what that meant.
Speaker 1:What does community benefits mean? What does it mean in the context of the project? What does it mean from the perspective of the public? And what it has meant and what has come to mean is really a recognition of the fact that there is an impact to the host communities of a major infrastructure project and a major binational border crossing. And through the community benefits plan, we want to recognize the role that the host communities play and provide positive benefits and or generate positive impact while we're here constructing the bridge. So that's really the why behind it. It's the how we got there through the community benefits plan, but that's the why recognizing the role that the communities the host communities play.
Speaker 2:So I think that this would come as a surprise to a lot of people that there is such a thing. Is it something that's incorporated in most P3s and just the way that Canada does these kinds of projects, or do you feel like there are some aspects that are unique to this project?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there are definitely aspects that are unique to this project.
Speaker 1:When I started with Winsor-Dtrait Bridge Authority back in 2015 and I was told, hey, community benefits part of your portfolio, I actually didn't know what it was.
Speaker 1:I had to start doing some research and lots of Google searches and what I found through that research back in 2015 is the construct of community benefits that have been integrated into a lot of projects in Ireland, Scotland, England, really focusing on workforce initiatives.
Speaker 1:I was seeing some initiatives, some programs in various cities in the US, not usually associated with P3 projects, Usually where things like land was required or certain approvals were required from municipal governments, and I could really only find two examples in Canada where a community benefits plan or agreement had been incorporated. You know again, a lot here in the Canadian side, similar to what I was seeing in Europe. We're focused on workforce initiatives and the ones that I was seeing on the US side we're a little bit more like paying for basketball courts and tree planting. So what we've done with our community benefits plan is really combined both those concepts the concept of providing meaningful measures that will support local workers and local businesses being part of the project and then also doing that community investment piece, and I think that's what's unique about our program is it combines what I learned through the research that we were doing back in 2015.
Speaker 2:Has it been difficult? I mean, everything is about prioritizing and about validating the organizations and the needs, and you got to make some difficult decisions. Talk about that process.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we identified the initiatives for the community benefits plan in a number of different ways. The very first thing we did and I think which was so critical was to listen, and we listened through extensive consultation. We started doing our public consultation in late 2015, really really picking up speed in 2016. And that continued until we announced our plan in June of 2019. So really three years there of consultation and we met one on one with people, we met with groups of three people. We've met with, you know, meeting with 100 plus people, just really all different sizes of groups business owners, associations, religious organizations just to really get that sense of what was important to the community.
Speaker 1:And then since then and a bit of a lesson learned that we saw and I think this has been a critical part to our ongoing delivery of the community benefits plan is that we formed a local community group and it has representatives. It's 16 people, representatives from the Windsor community, one representative from the Detroit community and they really serve as our sounding board and they weigh in on some of these initiatives that we're contemplating and they express their thoughts and their opinions and in many ways are they're the voice of the community as we're continuing with the delivery of the plan and I think that helps with that validation that you talked about. It helps us make sure that we're hearing people and that there are those voices that can kind of check us and say, well, wait a minute, that's not really a huge priority for us. But this other area now is think about how you can consider that. So I think that local community group is probably is one of our greatest assets.
Speaker 2:Do you think the reaction initially was skepticism, especially, I think, in Southwest Detroit where people have endured so much long before there was talk of building another bridge and they naturally have some skepticism, I guess, and in credulity toward government and the kind of promises that they've heard. So was that a difficult thing to overcome, to say no, look, we're going to do this, we're committed to this and we're really going to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely. So there was a lot of conversations that we were in in the early days again 2015, 2016, 2017, where people would say to us we need to fight for community benefits, we need to fight to make this happen, and we would say, well, you actually don't. We are committed to doing it, we're going to do this. And it did take time for people to realize, yes, we were going to actually follow up with what we committed to. One of the challenges that we had was we were doing all this consultation at the same time that we were doing our P3 procurement process, which led to our private sector partner being identified, which is a very confidential process. So it took.
Speaker 1:People did have to have some faith in us because we couldn't give them details of what we were doing. That just is not how the procurement process works, and how we were able to do that, quite frankly, is we had some people who trusted us, who put their faith in us and they became leaders for us. That, I believe. I believe some community members maybe who didn't have fullest faith in us, they did have faith in those other people who became kind of our community leaders that we relied upon and that kind of helped us get through. And then, once we announced the plan and started delivery, what's been important to us has been to keep the public informed about the progress being made. If we were delivering this plan kind of in isolation, not really being transparent about how money was being spent or how progress was being made, I would think people would be justified to be critical. But we do quarterly reporting, we talk about it at every public meeting, continue to do updates for people and I think that's helped people to have trust in us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you kind of built up the credibility of one person, one group at a time and used surrogates to help with that, and that makes a lot of sense. I recall one of these announcements a few years ago that I was able to attend and Lieutenant Governor Gilchrist was there, and there were genuine tears from some people in the community who I think were so relieved and just so happy that what they had been promised was coming through. I'm guessing there were similar reactions last week when I wasn't able to be there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there really were. The latest announcement the $2.6 million in 13 new initiatives again a process. We had to take a process to get here. What I like to remind people about is when we first announced our community benefits plan, which was $20 million at the time, we didn't allocate that full amount. We kept some money aside, did that for two reasons. One, just in case some of our initiatives went over our anticipated budget. We'd have a little bit of a contingency there. But also, we recognize this is a long construction project Now a seven-year construction term. Priorities can change over that time we wanted to leave some money so that we could fund new projects and new initiatives later in the construction process. Well, we're now there. We're now later in the construction process and it was the reaction that we had. I think is because these initiatives very much reflect what today's needs are Green initiatives, food security initiatives, community and safety initiatives. Those are reflecting some of the need that we're seeing right now in the community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it would intrigue me most about this and I mean every part of this is good and it's going to help somebody in some way. But the green initiatives and the cycling infrastructure, added to Jefferson and Clark that you know, it's going to build connections between the bridge and the multi-use path to the city of Detroit's Jo-Louis Greenway that's just a tremendous benefit. I mean, building a bridge is all about connections to begin with, but this extends well beyond the footprint of the bridge. So can you talk about how that came to be?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So you know we announced that the bridge would have a multi-use path back in I think was 2016,. And again, you know I give the community credit for that that the community drove, you know, made sure that we knew how important it was to include this path on the bridge, which is great, and we included in the design and it's part of construction. But the next piece of that is okay. So you bike across the bridge, where do you go then? Where does that take you?
Speaker 1:And that really led us to having conversations with the city of Detroit, the city of Windsor and local cycling organizations to identify where there may be gaps. You know where are their existing trail networks and where are their gaps between those trail networks and how you would get to the Gordie Howe International Bridge. And we have been working with the city of Detroit and have identified where we'll put some, install some cycling infrastructure, as noted between Jefferson sorry, on Jefferson and Clark that will then be able to connect into existing trail networks, and we're doing the same thing on the Canadian side as well. So, ultimately, you know you're going to be able to go across this bridge and have access to miles of trail networks and the international aspect of it, I think, is so fascinating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's say I started, you know somewhere, maybe down by the Wrensend, and traveled up toward the bridge, you know, and that network of trails, and then crossed the bridge. How far could I go on the Windsor side?
Speaker 1:Actually you could go. You could go all the way to Niagara Falls if you wanted.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Yes, because we you will be able to come across. You'll connect into the Parkway Trail, which is part of the extension of Highway 401, or the right on the lower Herb Gray Parkway that connects into the Chrysler Greenway from the price of their greenway, connects into a broader trail network, which is the trans-Canada Trail and the waterfront trail, and you could go all the way to Niagara Falls. I mean it's gonna take a couple days.
Speaker 2:That's great. Well, let's let's talk real briefly about the other. Recent announcement on the schedule Didn't take anybody following this project closely by surprise. There's been obviously a 100-year pandemic that had a major impact on both sides of the border, so could you talk about where we're at now with the overall project?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so good, good progress is being made and, you know, 2023 was really a great year for us from a construction perspective. We had good weather and we were really able to move forward on the bridge. On the towers, the towers reached their full height by the end of 2023. The road deck was over more than halfway across the river. But the other thing that 2023 gave us was the opportunity to look really at how much we were done, how much the pandemic may have impacted us and, importantly, how much we had left to do, like, how much do we have left to do to complete this project.
Speaker 1:And we made the determination that our original estimate, which was Completing the bridge by the end of 2024 and the ports of entry, of course, and I-75 Just was not going to be achievable. So we've announced that the bridge will, the construction will, now be completed in September of 2025 and Then the bridge itself will be open to users shortly thereafter. So fall of 2025, so adding, you know, depending on how you do the math, maybe about 10 months to our overall construction schedule. And again, as you know, I don't think that's much of a surprise to people we did have the pandemic to contend with supply chain challenges that everyone is dealing with, and really that that's how we're going to be able to get this bridge done while at the same time, maintaining our quality standards and, most importantly, keeping people safe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I think it's reasonable and, again, and not a huge surprise, and I think we all look forward to Celebrating sometime toward the end of next year. So definitely, heather. Thank you, as always, for talking about this and this community benefits plan, which is just really cool and you know, I don't know that we can say enough about it.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. It's my pleasure. Anytime you want an update about any aspect of the project, I'm happy to share.
Speaker 2:I'll be back in just a minute to talk with Muhammad El-Garabi, who is the senior project manager for MDOT on the Gordy Howe International Bridge and participated in the community benefits announcement, as he always does, and it's just. It's great to hear his enthusiasm and the genuine affinity he's developed for the people in the neighborhood, developing really close relationships over the years. So stay tuned for that. We'll be right back. Stay tuned.
Speaker 1:No, before you go, head on over to my drive to check out the latest on road construction and possible delays along your route. For a detail map, head over to Michigangov slash drive.
Speaker 2:We're back, muhammad El-Garabi, senior project manager on the Gordy Howe International Bridge. He's been involved in this project for really more than two decades, which Probably sounds odd because the bridge hasn't been under construction that long. But there was a lot of work Getting us to this point and as part of that work, muhammad developed some very deep, meaningful relationships with the people in the Southwest Detroit community, the people who are most affected by the bridge project, and so I know from these previous community benefits announcements and and last week's, how much it means to him to be able to say to the people you know look, we worked with the Windsor Detroit Bridge Authority and we made you promises and here we are delivering on those promises. So, muhammad, thanks for being here. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 3:Sure, thank you so much, jeff, for having me here. This is I. I told the crowd, you are correct, I was at the announcement and I told them. I said you know, as a, as an engineer, I can be a geek and I can be someone. That would be really, you know, basically very excited. Probably most exciting time is to be walking into a cut rubbing Ceremony of the actual project, and we'll do that next year.
Speaker 3:But but, jeff, the honest truth, the most important moments For me being 20 years on the project, to the, to the month or to the year is seeing the community reap the benefits they desired and they, they really worked hard and fought hard to get it. It's standing in front of the crowd and you know how contentious some, some of those crowds, were at the time and Letting them know that you know we're here, we want to build a bridge and and basically they look at you and say it's my community, it's my neighborhood, it's my children, and for us to see that through and having the community receive what they, like I said, desired, or at least the best they could I, I qualify, qualify it, but it's really a great moment. It's. It's a one of those moments that I am. I will remember for the rest of my life. I am very, very grateful that we, we could, we could make that happen talk about what?
Speaker 2:what did you say beyond that and what does it mean? I mean, you've been part of of many projects and any infrastructure project Obviously is is about quality of life, but I don't think you've ever experienced anything like this that goes beyond just the building of the infrastructure To so many things that most people wouldn't think are related to a bridge Specifically. Can you talk about that?
Speaker 3:Sure, and let me be clear and thank you, jeff, for saying that this is not an ordinary transportation infrastructure project that we do day in and day out. The department tackles many projects every day, every month, every year. This is once in a lifetime we build a new. I mean the last time it was built you look at the bridges or tunnel in the air we're talking in the 1920s and we have a lifespan of 125 years. Just, I mean, it lasts much longer, but that's the standard. So, yes, you are correct, the community looked us square in the eyes and said I need more because we do mitigation. You are correct.
Speaker 3:Our theme is we try to avoid the first thing, so avoid impacts, then we try to minimize impacts and then finally we mitigate, we provide something that will make up for that impact. But typically in transportation projects we don't go to the extent that the community asked us. And in this case, jeff, to be specific, they told us that, yeah, you're not taking these homes, you're not acquiring these homes, but what can you do, for example, to do HVAC, to do replacement of the roof, replacement of the? You know things that the community really in need desperately for those homes that were remaining in the project area and I have to say I am so grateful to the, to the, to my, to our partner, our Canadian partners, windsor Detroit Bridge Authority, for basically going the extra mile and listening to that request and listening to the needs and really went, went to the extra mile and made this program that Heather explained earlier, basically the, you know, trying to address that, and I really think we could not have done anything as long as it's this particular one that I just explained. I don't think the community would have felt the same way that they feel now.
Speaker 3:And of course, I know Heather explained to you the other thing which is like why we were making the announcement is by making those grants. Every year it's been since the project we had the cut, you know, basically the beginning of construction in 2018. They have been very consistent. They, the Canadians, the project partner make money available for community to fulfill their needs, and I'm sure she explained the 51 different categories, which really I mean it just very heartfelt and I'm very, very excited to see, for example, chess, where the actual announcement was. They were the host to that announcement when it was made last week and we were basically they were a recipient to that grant application and so many other, clark Park were a recipient and that brings so much joy to my heart. So I'll pause here. Jeff, I hope I answered your question.
Speaker 2:No, you did, and I think that you know. It's important to remember that the government of Canada is financing this entire project for political reasons that we don't need to get into again, and it is impressive that as part of financing the project, they included and have included funding like this for for benefits to the people that are affected by the project. But I think what's always most interesting to me is how your work as a, as an engineer, but on the planning side, going into this, is so much about outreach and, you know, engagement with the community. So talk a little bit about that and why it's so important to develop those relationships and to get to know the people and to get to know you know what are going to be their priorities and their concerns as the thing goes forward.
Speaker 3:Again, jeff, thank you for this question. I really appreciate it so much because it gives me the chance to speak about what the department has done in recent months, and I know you hosted Ryan Mitchell, who is our boss, who's in charge of the Bureau of major projects. The department is taking has been taking the whole time extremely seriously about these major projects, but now we're going to the extra mile, and what I mean by that? Bringing all the major projects to one office under one division and basically combining it with innovative contracting. So the formula is basically it's it's going to succeed. There's no if or but about it. But the thing that I'm so excited that I want to share it answers your question, one of the things that Ryan, who's a great leader the first thing that when I him and I sat down to talk about how we go forward and obviously we're in the building, he's in the building mode of building that office the very first thing. Actually, two things, and I know the second one. Both of them will bring a smile to your face, jeff. He said we need to talk about stakeholder engagement plan, not that the department doesn't have one, but we wanted to have the baseline. What would that look like and we're working together and I he's giving me the role to take the lead and I'm very excited to take the lead on that charge of building, putting together the, the fundamentals of stakeholder engagement.
Speaker 3:Second one is the communication and, jeff, you have been an incredible leader. The department is so grateful to have someone like you because you've taught me a lot and the things that you've taught me. Communication. If you do well with communication, you do well with everything you're trying to accomplish, whatever that project or mission you're trying to tackle. And so let me back to the stakeholder engagement. Why is that fundamental? I tell people that if you, for example, when we build this bridge and when we build this tower, we started from the foundation, we could not have built it from the top down. I feel the same way about the community. I feel the same way about stakeholder engagement. It is the foundation of the bridge, foundation of this once in a lifetime project. Had we not tackled it in a way where community, community, community. That's really where I believe the project made it through. It would not have made it through if that area was not paid attention to.
Speaker 3:Spent time, jeff, not going back, but we've met with the community every month for years and it wasn't just once a month and go away. We had several other meetings during that month, reaching out and basically engage. But it didn't stop there. It's not, it's a two-way street. It's not just the department, the project, it was the community and the community leaders I mentioned during the announcement, when we did mention the recent grant recipient winner.
Speaker 3:Of the grant recipient, I said that we had Dolores Leonard. She's a retired school teacher that came every single meeting and it was always the meetings at 7 pm on, say, wednesday, and whether it's sunshine or snow, she was in the front and asking all the questions she needed. Her counterpart from Windsor came all the way, took the bus and came across to Detroit to join her brother and sister from Detroit. She, mary Ann Cutterman the name amazing women, amazing leader from Sandwich Town who again was in the front asking the questions in Detroit for the project that is International Project. So that formula of success started and continues to be with the people, because without the people, what are you building this bridge for? It is for the people. So I believe that it is the fundamentals of any project endeavor such as the one that we tackled.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Mohammed, for the kind words. I think you're probably being overly generous to me, but I do definitely appreciate that you value communications, and communications with a small C, meaning everything that you do, everybody you talk to, every relationship and building trust, and I think that's what you've done. That's most important. I talked to Heather a little bit about the skepticism that greeted them in the early days when the neighbors said basically, yeah, we've heard a lot of these things before and what a relief it must be for them, the WDBA, and for you and your colleagues to be at announcements like last week's and see the genuine gratitude and that sense of wow, you guys really did come through with what you said you would, and I just think that must be a really, really good feeling for you.
Speaker 3:It was I couldn't describe. I mean, hopefully people saw it and I have. At the very end I tried to tell people I apologize if I sounded like a kid waiting for Christmas or a kid just walking into the candy shop, because that's how I feel. I feel like I am the recipient, even though I'm not. But if you think about it, I am the recipient because somebody that the department is entrusted in to represent the department and take that public sector responsibility and say we are going to build a project, we are going to take care of the community and then deliver it and then see the community celebrate those successes.
Speaker 3:To me that complete the promise. The promise that we made was fulfilled, and for that, that's why I'm excited. Breaking mortar is great, don't get me wrong. We promise breaking mortar, but promising on a breaking mortar is different. That's a thing versus a promising to people and delivering to the people and have the people celebrate that promise fulfilled. It is phenomenal. I've gone to two or three of those and every time I go I mean I am not coming out because I'm choking for excitement for thank you, thank you the project, thank you all the partners for fulfilling the promise that you made. Yeah, well said.
Speaker 2:I mean. What you're saying basically is it is better to get from your seat, so that's great. Thank you, mohammed. As always, I'm sure we'll be speaking again as the project goes forward and we look forward to completion sometime toward the end of next year. Things are on target. Heather and I talked a little about that too, but I really appreciate your perspective and your relating to us how much it meant to be part of another community benefits announcement. So thank you again.
Speaker 3:My pleasure, Jeff. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Michigan Transportation. You can find show notes and more on Apple podcasts or Buzzsprout. I also want to acknowledge the talents of people who help make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Debbler, who skillfully edits the audio, jesse Ball, who proofs the content, courtney Bates, who posts the podcast of various platforms, and Jackie Salinas, who transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.