Talking Michigan Transportation
The Talking Michigan Transportation podcast features conversations with transportation experts inside and outside MDOT and will touch on anything and everything related to mobility, including rail, transit and the development of connected and automated vehicles.
Talking Michigan Transportation
After a series of work-zone crashes, what can be done?
On this week’s edition of the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, a conversation with Gregg Brunner, chief operations officer at the Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT), about recent deadly crashes in or near work zones.
On June 24, a truck driver was killed and MDOT workers were injured in a crash on I-75 in Monroe County.
In another, July 1, two people were killed in a crash in a work zone queue on I-96 west of Portland.
Brunner composed a poignant message to department employees with a reminder of the need to be vigilant about safety.
From his message:
We talk often about safety, but these events are painful reminders of just how critical it is every single day, in every single task. Whether you're in a work zone, near active traffic, in one of our garages or facilities, or behind the wheel, your actions matter. Safety is a mindset, not a checklist. It's about being present, engaged and always looking out for one another.
Brunner talked about benefits to be found in developments in technology to alert drivers and the promise of driver-assist technologies in vehicles, as outlined by National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).
Hello, welcome to the Talking Michigan Transportation Podcast.
Speaker 1:I'm Jeff Cranston.
Speaker 1:I spoke with Greg Brunner, who is the Chief Operations Officer at the Michigan Department of Transportation, about a poignant message that he sent out to operations staff around the state this week Because of a series of incidents in work zones that involved fatalities of drivers and or people who were working on a site.
Speaker 1:He issued a somber reminder of everything that's involved in construction and the need for everybody to be diligent about safety and what it means, and he expanded on that in our conversation and also talked about what developing technology could mean to make a difference and make everybody safer. So I hope you enjoy the conversation. So Greg Brunner, the Chief Operations Officer at MDOT. I mentioned in the introduction why this topic is particularly important to him to give you I think I've talked about this before in the podcast, but to give people a sense of his commitment to work zone safety. He has a full orange suit that he wears on the work zone safety awareness kickoff each year and gets a lot of comments and the whole idea is to draw attention to it and I think it works.
Speaker 1:Greg, thanks for taking time to talk today. I was really struck by a message that you sent out to staff operations staff around the state in the wake of a series of incredibly tragic events. That one involved a former M engineer who worked for a consulting engineering company a very close call in Monroe County. Unfortunately, a truck driver died there and several M in Monroe County. Unfortunately, a truck driver died there and several MDOT workers from the Monroe Garage were injured. And then another incident, not actually on the road but work related to the road, where a contractor was killed. All of this really hit home and you sent out a very poignant, I think, and somber message to the staff. So can you talk about that and what prompted that?
Speaker 3:Sure. Again, thanks for having me, Jeff, and, as you know, with my ownership and everything else that I do, I'm always willing to talk about safety, so I appreciate being here today. But yeah, as you mentioned, at MDOT, it's been a hard few weeks when it comes to work zones, with a few losses that we've had here and a few really close calls that had happened out on our roadways. I just kind of sent that message out just to remind people how critical it is to take safety into everything we do on a daily basis, to pretty much always remember to stay alert and kind of keep an eye on traffic, no matter what you're doing, whether you're in a work zone or driving or other types of things. That safety is not really something you can let slack, something we need to kind of always stay on guard with. I know, kind of as you get into the middle of construction season and you're dealing with traffic on a daily basis, my biggest concern is I don't want people to become complacent when it gets to safety in terms of what they do and again, it's not just if you're out working in a work zone or even working in the garage or even in the office. Day to day. There's different things you do to keep an eye on your own safety. You know whether it's driving to work, driving through construction zones or anything else. Just simple reminders, even to just wear a seatbelt. Keep your eyes on the road, whether you're driving normally or in a work zone, because you know even some of these queue crashes that happened to our friend and former co-worker those weren't quite to the work zone yet, Traffic had backed up and you know, at the end of the day, these incidents we saw in the past couple of weeks with our folks. They came down to people not paying attention is what it was other people on the roadway. So those investigations are still ongoing. We don't have all the details yet but for the most part we have things set up from a standard safety standpoint.
Speaker 3:So what I've kind of asked our folks to do not only is to focus on safety but to look out for each other while they're out there too. If you're driving through a work zone and notice something that may not look right, feel free to give that office a call to kind of talk through things. You know, if your co-worker is doing something that doesn't work right, or a contractor or anything else you know, don't hesitate to speak up, because just simple words like that could be the difference that really impacts someone's life down the road. You know lots of these things that have happened. Whether any of the crashes that happened on our roadways, no one expects those to happen on their way to work or wherever they're going that day.
Speaker 3:So anything we can do to keep each other safe and keep an eye on each other goes a long way. So I just wanted to send out that message, kind of as a reminder for our folks that, no matter what's going on, everybody that's out in the work zone every vest, every hard, hard hat, every orange barrel that's a person, one of our friends, one of our teammates and, again, someone that wants to go home at the end of the day and see their family. So again, that's kind of what my message was aimed at is just to a general reminder to keep each other safe and look out for what we're doing on a daily basis I think what you said, um, in your message that probably was most effective and really struck me was safety is a mindset, not a checklist.
Speaker 1:It's about being present, engaged and always looking out for one another. It's really easy to lapse and forget and take these things for granted, but really as much as we want to focus on the workers and what they're doing and wearing the proper gear and the right safety gear, all those things distracted driving you know it's been a problem for a long time, as we've talked about many times. The more ways we invent to make our vehicle safer, the more ways we invent to distract ourselves, and that really took off during the early days of the pandemic. We know that there were more incidents of distracted driving, more incidents of people driving under the influence, people now wearing seatbelts, extreme speeds, all those things. The only way I think we're ever going to solve this is through technology that helps us further human-proof the system, because humans are always going to make mistakes.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of companies, there's a lot of research going on with technology and I hope that someday and I'm interested in your thoughts about what we're already doing we get to the point where at least commercial vehicles, big heavy vehicles could have a warning that goes off. I mean much more than just a pop-up on your Waze or your Google Maps, but something in the cab that tells the driver, hey, traffic is stopped one mile ahead, something like that. How do you think we're doing developing that kind of thing?
Speaker 3:That's something, again, that takes time to get into every vehicle that's out on the roadways, but we are performing lots of pilots and, again, when you start talking about work zones and people paying attention, there's some things we're doing more on the static standpoint in terms of increased signing and other types of things, but also what we've within the last few years. What we started doing is adding temporary rumble strips to a lot of the lead-ins to our work zones, just so that, if people are doing something distracting, it gives them the idea to look up and pay attention to what's going on, because, as you know, when it starts talking to work zones, things can change quickly. But I think really looking forward, like you had mentioned, is how can we use technology to keep things safer? There are things we are doing right now, as well as many things we're piloting, in terms of how to make that happen. Some of the things we are doing now on quite a few projects where we anticipate traffic backups due to construction are what's called a queue detection system, where we actually and we're on projects where we anticipate a longer queue length due to work zones we actually put out sensors and cameras out there that will, once they notice traffic is starting to queue up, that they'll send alerts to changeable message boards in advance of that to warn people of queues ahead. You know traffic queue in one mile or two miles ahead, those types of things. So there's technologies like that we're already doing right now, but there's other things we're looking at as well.
Speaker 3:More recently, what we started doing for projects that were let this spring are including a spec in our plans calling for every arrow board we use in work zones to be a connected arrow board and what that means is that it sends out a feed through what's called the work zone data exchange, sends out a feed through what's called the work zone data exchange and that's kind of a standard language that was developed through um, ite and some other groups to look at, kind of a consistent message that any uh vehicle would be able to interpret, adapt or put into their on-screen navigation system to alert drivers of something ahead. So again, once they send out that message through the work zone data exchange, that can be incorporated into vehicle technology to let them know that there's a work zone ahead. So those are things that are really going on right now. But looking farther down the road, we're looking at other types of pilots. Recently, one we did was called Safe Zone, which where we received a grant from the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration to put more cameras and sensors out in our roadways that would then send messages in-vehicle messages to commercial vehicles, kind of like you had talked about early on. So the technology is getting there. It's just a matter of having operators to ingest that equipment or things installed in their vehicles to be able to allow that to happen.
Speaker 3:So again, like anything with those large technology transitions, those take time, but we're looking at that technology, doing many different pilots right now to be able to incorporate things for the future, just to make things safer for everybody.
Speaker 3:Beyond that, we are also working with another vendor on a pilot where we're installing uh sensors into our vehicles where once we flip on our lights for in the work zone, whether they're the construction bubble lights that we have on our trucks once those go on it sends out a message that is ingested by Stellantis vehicles, volkswagen vehicles, google Waze and other things, just to warn that there's a construction zone ahead or work zone ahead or whatever else. And where I see this being very helpful is on some of the emergency response or other types of vehicles, that kind of work outside of the work zones whether they're bridge inspectors or electricians or other types of things where there may not be a lot of work zone signings set up in advance because they're only out there a very brief time. But again, the intent is to get those into those in-vehicle navigation systems to give people that alert that something's going on, to pay attention and then, most importantly, to stay safe. Stay with us.
Speaker 1:We'll have more on the other side of this important message Stay safe, stay with us, we'll have more.
Speaker 2:On the other side of this important message have you ever ridden with someone who turns down the music when they're driving through an unfamiliar situation? What do you do to make sure you're alert? When approaching a work zone, Everyone should slow down, pause your conversation and follow posted traffic signs. Do whatever it takes to avoid distraction. Keep Michigan Work Zone safe for construction crews and your passengers.
Speaker 1:We haven't done an update in a while. I've talked about this in the podcast in the past. It took us a long time. It took us a long time. It was a laborious process but eventually paid off with the legislation that will allow for some automated enforcement with safety cameras in work zones. We know that the other states I don't know what it is now 23 to 25 that have done this have seen a difference. It's actually helped reduce those kinds of crashes. I have no doubt that some of the ones that we're talking about, if people knew, if they were told by signs ahead of time that you're going to be, your speed is going to be monitored and you could be cited if you're speeding when you go through this work zone, that's going to get people's attention. All the research shows, especially with younger people, that fear of dying doesn't affect them because they think they're invincible. But if you tell them it's going to hit their wallet, that does get their attention. So where are we at with that?
Speaker 3:Sure. So it was last year that was actually signed into law to allow us to be able to incorporate work zone safety cameras into our projects. So where we are right now is we're looking at other states in terms of some of the proposals they had sent out, but the plan is to hire a vendor that specializes in this technology to be able to incorporate into our work zones. There are some specific criteria within the law in terms of where this can be used, so it can only be used in certain work zones around the state that are there Over 30 days, aren't behind barrier wall. A few other things that we're working through right now. But again, the intent is to hire a contractor to be able to perform that.
Speaker 3:And the way it is set up is it's not like other speeding tickets that you would receive. The way it's set up is it's only it hits your pocketbook, not necessarily points associated with it. So the first violation, you would just get a written warning in the mail. The second violation would be $150 fine and the third and subsequent violations would be civil infractions no greater than $300. Be civil infractions no greater than $300.
Speaker 3:So that's kind of how things would look in terms of fines that would go out from these work zone safety cameras. But again, what I've always said is my hope is that we put these out and no fines are issued because people are driving the proper speeds out there through our work zones to keep everybody safe not only the workers, but those driving through, those in queues, everyone else. And the pretty amazing thing we've seen in talking to other states, in particular Maryland, what they saw when these rolled out was an increase of almost 90% of vehicles that traveled at the speed that they were supposed to be out there. So again, it's what we want is the goal of this is not for citations but overall for driver compliance. Again, we just want to keep folks safe, because once you keep folks traveling about the same speed, that's really improved safety throughout the entire stretch of roadway there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's good to emphasize that this is not at all about speed traps and money grabs. This is completely as you said. If it gets people to slow down and there aren't any fines, that's great. That's the ultimate goal and that money would only go to help manage the program. It's not going to be some kind of moneymaker for anybody. So I don't think we can emphasize that enough.
Speaker 1:And Sean Duffy, who's the US DOT Secretary, is very interested in safety. He says it's a top priority and he's also interested in technology. So my hope is that some of these things can get traction at the federal level. And I know it's a bit of a dilemma because you can say you're about safety but then you're also dealing with people who see it from a civil libertarian viewpoint and various ways that people are being tracked. But I would hope that ultimately, the imperative to get people to slow down when they're driving through you know, somebody's workspace and thinking about that person not as just a hard hat but as a mother or father or sister or brother, just like the rest of us that that can actually make an impact someday. What's your hope on the horizon for where we're at, I guess I don't know, five years from now, 10 years from now.
Speaker 3:Well, I hope really, the Smart Work Zone technology takes off, where we've done quite a few pilots, different things to send out notifications to vehicles. But you know, beyond the notifications are there things we can do to incorporate to get cars to slow down or other types of things to maintain safe distances when you're driving through work zones or to mitigate queues, those types of things. So again, we've looked at a lot of the static things out there. So again, we've looked at a lot of the static things out there, but again, working with technology providers and the automotive industry to be able to improve just safety overall. Again, it's going to have to come through technology, though, I think, beyond just some of the static things we've historically done. So I'm hopeful that things work out. And again, that's kind of what keeps me motivated, though, when it comes to safety every day. We still have about 1,000 people dying on our roads annually. So again, that's what keeps me motivated every day when I come to work is to keep pushing that number down to zero.
Speaker 1:Well, and going to the message and the reason that we started this conversation in the first place, I know you've done a lot of speaking and a lot of discussion with other people other DOTs and people at the federal level about mental health and how you know the challenges, the unique challenges to that. I mean every job has stress and certainly there's all kinds of causes of mental health, but to think about the workforce that has to work in this kind of environment with the inherent dangers all around it definitely takes its toll. So anything new you want to say about that?
Speaker 3:No, I just think kind of the biggest thing that people may not realize when it comes to mental health is that it really impacts the construction industry more than many others that you would believe, just due to not only the long hours but again the stressful situations trying to deal with contracts and fixed price and schedule and everything else. But in the back of your mind also noting that traffic's still traveling by you at excessive rates of speed, you know feet away from where you're trying to concentrate to get your job done. So again that's a big part of it that people may not think about, but again it plays a role in everything else we do and again my goal is just to keep folks safe. I want everyone to get home at the end of the day to their family, friends and loved ones.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well said. Well thanks, Greg.
Speaker 3:Thanks for taking time to talk about this again and for doing what you can to get the word out.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me, Jeff. I appreciate it. I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Michigan Transportation. You can find show notes and more on Apple Podcasts or Buzzsprout. I also want to acknowledge the talented people who help make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Debler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who proofs the content, Courtney Bates, who posts the podcast to various platforms, and Jackie Salinas, who transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.