Talking Michigan Transportation
The Talking Michigan Transportation podcast features conversations with transportation experts inside and outside MDOT and will touch on anything and everything related to mobility, including rail, transit and the development of connected and automated vehicles.
Talking Michigan Transportation
Federal help for studying and reducing wildlife crashes
On this week’s Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, news that a federal grant will allow for the study of wildlife crossings to protect motorists and animals alike.
Amanda Novak, a resource specialist at the Michigan Department of Transportation who helped lead the effort to secure the grant, returns to explain the benefits.
The grant award comes at a good time as State Farm released an annual report this week that shows Michigan ranked fourth among states for vehicle collisions with animals.
As reported previously, these crashes pose tremendous risk and costs to drivers. For example, white-tailed deer alone account for more than 55,000 collisions and a $130 million cost to drivers per year.
Novak talks about what she’s learned from other government agencies, which have studied the problem and implemented mitigation efforts.
A previous episode of the podcast featured a conversation with a connectivity specialist with the Yellowstone to Yukon (Y2Y) Conservation Initiative about creative and successful solutions implemented on the Trans-Canada Highway in Banff National Park.
Podcast photo: An animal-crossing sign for tortoises. Photo by Carol M. Highsmith on Noun Project.
Hello, welcome to the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast. I'm Jeff Cranston. Today I'm happy to talk again with Amanda Novak, who is a resource specialist at the Michigan Department of Transportation. She received some good news that a grant she has been working on in cooperation with the Department of Natural Resources has moved forward with some federal funds that will be available to study hot spots for wildlife crossings.
Speaker 1:This is a huge concern in Michigan, as a recent study from the insurance industry showed that Michigan is fourth among all the states for collisions with wildlife.
Speaker 1:To be clear, obviously this has benefits to the ecosystem and keeping a balance between the wildlife.
Speaker 1:That's important to our state, but it's also about protecting human life and property. Anybody that has had a collision with an animal knows that there can be injuries or worse to the drivers and certainly the vehicles, and that's why the insurance industry tracks this so closely. So Amanda explained what they will be doing with these grant dollars and what the study will entail, and she has a lot of really interesting insights. So I hope you enjoy the conversation. So, as I mentioned in the introduction, amanda was instrumental in working with the Department of Natural Resources on an application for a grant and was successful, and this is for the Michigan Vehicle Collision Hotspot Analysis for Planning of Future Wildlife Crossings. Basically, it's a way to figure out how to let wildlife cross at various roads highways some high level, some lower level safely so that they're spared, and so are the human drivers who are often probably not as often as people realize, but often injured or worse because of these collisions. So, amanda, thank you for taking time to be here again and congratulations on moving forward with this grant.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you, Jeff, for inviting me back. I'm happy to be able to report that we're moving forward.
Speaker 1:And so talk a little bit first about the background on this we don't assume that anybody remembers and what got you interested in this in the first place and brought you to a partnership with another state agency that obviously has a vested interest in this. Can you talk about both those things?
Speaker 2:Sure, well, I've been interested in this for quite a long time. I went to Central Michigan University and I was a biology major with an emphasis on natural resources and, more specifically, wildlife. And during my time at CMU, there was a graduate student that was studying, you know, animal overpasses, and I got to work on that project just a little bit, just helping with minor things but it started to pique my interest and then, when I came to MDOT in 2013, I started working on ways that we might develop a project similar to this, and so last year, dnr approached me. They tracked me down through a series of other folks, and we started talking about pursuing this wildlife crossing pilot program grant funding, and so that's kind of where it started, and then we worked together to create the grant application by the deadline last year.
Speaker 1:So I spoke previously, as you probably recall, with Tim Johnson, who works on landscape connectivity for the Yellowstone to Yukon Conservation Initiative. It's known as Y2Y and it's been very successful in both some western states and western provinces of Canada in making a significant dent in these collision numbers. But a big driving force for them and for Parks Canada was a mandate, you know, for ecological balance. I think it's really important for people to understand that, while many of us understand why that's important and certainly why ecological balance matters and why we need to care about these species, that first and foremost we're trying to protect the humans, the drivers, who are often in these collisions. So I know you've probably had to explain that to a lot of people, since you've been working on this, who think you know, is that the best use of our money? We've got other things we need to be worried about. Why are we trying to protect the white-tailed deer and the turtles and some other small animals? So talk about that and how you explain it to people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those two initiatives go together. You know, the whole background of this grant is that it connects these habitats for the species to be able to just go on and meet all of their ecological needs, as well as providing safe passage for them so they don't collide with motorists and they're not separate. There's no way to manage them separately, unfortunately. So the big driving force behind this and even achieving the grant funding was proving that we were doing both we're connecting habitats and providing safety for our motorists.
Speaker 1:And recently I think you've identified some new numbers. I think the Midland Daily News is one outlet that reported on something that State Farm puts out the insurance company, because obviously this is a huge issue for insurance companies and Michigan ranked number four and it's not a ranking that we want to be high on. So talk about that and how. That, I think, further informs your study.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's actually. I mean the funny part of the article is it says Michigan ranked number four. Actually, I mean the funny part of the article is it says Michigan ranked number four. But that has nothing to do with college football, it is really. It's unfortunately we're fourth for animal auto claim collisions and the article did say that you know you have a one in 61 chance of colliding with an animal. You know the number one ranking animal was deer, of course, and so that's huge for our study. That just kind of serves as background information as to why this is so important to move forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean they pointed out that that number at 1.7 auto insurance claims from July 1st 2024 to June 30th 2025, 1.7 was actually down a little from the previous in the state and 1.7 million auto insurance claims are filed. It's really kind of terrifying.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's very terrifying, and when you think about some of the posted speed limits of our roadways as well looking at some of our corridors that have been increased to 75 miles per hour I mean that's a pretty dramatic crash when it happens. So it's definitely an issue for our motorists, both financially and safety-wise.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So let's talk about now that the grant has moved forward. The federal government has given full approval and you're working on, you've got obligation. So it means that pretty soon I would assume sometime next year you and the team at the DNR can start really getting into this. What will that entail? What are the next steps?
Speaker 2:The next steps. I met with purchasing, and so we're going to look at the best way to put a request for proposal out, what our contracting options are, and probably in conjunction with that, I'll start working with DNR on that scope. You know what that looks like. We have a lot of that already included in the grant application, so it'll just be expanding on some of those items a little bit more and then hopefully we'll be putting out an RFP, maybe early in 2026.
Speaker 1:And then, once they talk about that process, the request for proposals, RFP. All government agencies talk in those terms, but break it down a little more and what you expect to happen from there that will be between MDOT and DNR.
Speaker 2:We'll be gathering a lot of background information that will be provided to the entity that gets you know the grant or the contract awarded, and so we'll be working through those things kind of together. But that'll go out to bid and that's the part we're kind of unsure about right now is how that will look. But that'll go out to bid and then, once we get someone on board, then we'll be able to really start working on the project.
Speaker 1:So what have you learned? You know I mentioned that Y2Y project in the West, but obviously several other states. I noticed that Missouri, texas, west Virginia, pennsylvania were all high on that list you referenced from the State Farm Report. What have you learned from them about what can be successful and what we might be able to hope for?
Speaker 2:I have learned a lot from the other DOTs, which has been really exciting because we won't be starting from scratch, which is great. I have learned that retrofitting existing structures is pretty critical to getting things done a little quicker. I've learned a lot of the do's and don'ts if we do end up going forward with any kind of overpass projects what that looks like. They have a lot of background information on what's worked and what hasn't with other various mitigation measures used in fencing areas and things like that. So there's a lot of great information out there that we can use once we get these hot spots identified.
Speaker 1:Please stay tuned. We'll be back with more Talking Michigan Transportation right after this.
Speaker 3:Oh, look at those beautiful wildflowers along the road, aren't they pretty?
Speaker 4:Check out that classic car. You don't see many of those anymore.
Speaker 3:Wow, look at that cable median barrier.
Speaker 4:What you mean, that wire guardrail in the middle of the road?
Speaker 3:Exactly, aren't they gorgeous?
Speaker 4:Um, not exactly.
Speaker 3:They were put there to prevent crossover head-on crashes, which are some of the most deadly type of freeway crashes, and they're really effective, reducing those types of incidents by 90%. That's a lot of lives that have been saved, huh.
Speaker 4:I guess I never really looked at them like that. I prefer the wildflowers. But I'm seeing those median cable barriers in a whole new light.
Speaker 1:So I know that from discussions with what they've done in Alberta, the folks working on this for Y2Y and Parks Canada figured out that the best thing to do early on was create some fences that funneled the animals to some underpasses. They had sand at the crossing points and they used cameras to record the footprints and basically figure out and measure. You know what species were using them and how it was working. And then they advanced to actually building some overpasses too. So when you talk about, you know, retrofitting some existing infrastructure, talk more about what that means.
Speaker 2:We would be utilizing potentially like large culverts underneath the roadway. A lot of those culverts are designed. They're basically over-designed because they're created to meet very high storm events. Now, you know, as changes happen with weather patterns and things like that, we're kind of over-designing things to meet the worst case scenario and so we'll just be retrofitting some of those to enhance certain animals to cross in those locations.
Speaker 1:And you've found that that has worked in some other states that they'll actually use those. You know very large. I mean, how large are we talking about? Like 12 foot.
Speaker 2:I don't know in every case. We have culverts of all sizes everywhere, and so my thought is we just would retrofit it, you know, to maybe work for the largest animal and then kind of work down from that but largest animals.
Speaker 1:You're talking elk and moose, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, a lot of it depends. It's various species dependent on whether they'll use um culverts to cross or whether they would require um overpass overpasses just due to space and their needs. Um. Certain animals will not use overpasses just due to space and their needs. Certain animals will not use overpasses and certain animals will not use culverts. So it just really depends on what we're trying to mitigate for. But white-tailed deer will use culverts to cross.
Speaker 1:You know, have you seen I haven't researched this recently, but what we're finding in the northern lower peninsula and the upper peninsula, with black bear and collisions in roadways?
Speaker 2:That was in our grant application a little bit. Dnr had a map shown in there and it's showing that they're dispersing, so they're spreading out across the state and they're existing in places that they weren't before and so that does lead to an increase in collisions. So that is on our list to study and they had some areas identified that we would be focused on.
Speaker 1:So let's talk a little bit, because we've talked about this before and again. This issue is, I think, widely misunderstood. I think a lot of people think why would you spend any time, for instance, accommodating turtles crossing the road? For one, I love turtles, so I care a lot about them. But what we've found is that there are places that are common crossings, there are other drivers who also care about the turtles and they will pull over and try to help the turtles cross, which creates its own traffic hazards. Talk about that and how this can help mitigate those dangers.
Speaker 2:Yes, there are so many turtle lovers in the state of Michigan I didn't even realize how many until we had so many turtle collisions last year but there's herb groups out there, there's just a whole host of folks that care so much about turtles, and so, yes, we had folks, you know, going in the middle of live traffic trying to move turtles. We had folks swerving for them and creating collisions with other other vehicles, and so it it's a really big problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Nobody's come up with a good rhyme yet I was going to say nobody's come up with a good rhyme yet I was going to say nobody's come up with a good rhyme yet for turtles, like don't veer for deer right.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, go ahead and finish your thought. I'm sorry about that.
Speaker 2:No, that's okay. I was just going to say especially the larger turtles, those not only pose a risk for swerving, but they also pose a risk for just hitting them with your vehicle as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah right, they can do damage to a vehicle. So I guess I'm wondering, keep hitting on that theme. But you know you talk to family and friends in social gatherings and talk about what you do. I'm guessing that most in your circles are supportive of this, but do you hear some of that skepticism sometimes from?
Speaker 2:people Not so much in my circle, you know, of course I do, at times from even other MDOT staff who don't fully understand what this effort entails. But generally speaking, after we talk about it and I explain kind of the background and where we're headed, it's more favorable. But A lot of folks I talk with are just pretty excited about this effort. And a lot of folks are also really excited to think that you might, you know, drive a section of Michigan roadway that where you aren't afraid that deer are going to jump out in front of you.
Speaker 1:Right, right, exactly. And we're getting to that time of year now. It's almost October, and we know how active the deer become in the fall, especially in the mornings and the evenings. Are you confident, I guess? What's your pie in the sky, your best outcome, your dream for when we could actually be doing something with infrastructure based on what you find in this exploration?
Speaker 2:Well, this grant is supposed to wrap up the end of 2028. My hope is it would be done prior to that, but I'm really not sure how long this will take. But we do have some other pilot projects going on. I don't know if you wanted to talk about those at all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure Okay.
Speaker 2:DNR is the grant recipient of the Transportation Alternatives Program grants. They've gotten two pilot projects funded. One is turtle fencing on US 127, where we had talked about previously, where we had all the turtle hits, and the other one is exclusionary fencing on I-69 where we have some high crash numbers with white-tailed deer at posted speed limits of 75 miles an hour. So it's detrimental to traffic and every time we've been out there laying the project out and whatnot, there's been deer standing right by the edge of the roadway. So it's a good location.
Speaker 1:They're kind of looking at you, wondering what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they are standing there, and it's just so amazing that every time we visit they're there, so they're just kind of everywhere. It's a three-mile stretch of roadway that we'll be fencing and then following that, our hope is that we would be able to do follow-up research to study whether or not it's effective.
Speaker 1:So do you know what it is about that? The environment there, the habitat that makes it so attractive to the deer?
Speaker 2:Yes, we have talked about this in great depth. It has all of their habitat needs on separate sides of the road, all of their habitat needs on separate sides of the road. So they're just continuously crossing to get to a place where they can bed down and then get to a place where they can eat, and so they have to cross I-69 to do that.
Speaker 1:And same with 127. I can't remember. Is that in Gratiot County?
Speaker 2:That was Gratiot County. Yes, and that is actually. Our roadway goes right through the middle of two flooding areas, so that is their connection to both sides of the road.
Speaker 1:So it's just, it's water that's attracting the turtles on both sides. Basically, yes, yeah, well, good luck with this, amanda. Was there something else besides that TAP program you wanted to talk about related to this?
Speaker 2:Nope. Those are just two exciting projects that we hope to have built. I think they are slated right now for 2027 construction, so that'll probably be the earliest we see infrastructure going in of any kind. Of course, dnr is the lead, it's their funding, but I'm not will do the design work and oversight. So it's an amazing partnership. So I guess that'd be the last thing I want to highlight is just the amazing partnership between both agencies on this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and there's been a lot of really good initiatives that have come out of that partnership with the Department of Natural Resources and I'm glad this is moving forward and I hope we can do more to educate the public and lawmakers and media as this moves along so that they understand the incredible benefits, both in terms of injury, loss of life, property. All those things, the little bits that you do, can make a big difference down the road. So I'm hopeful, just as you are.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's an amazing opportunity and we greatly appreciate you highlighting this, Jeff.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you, Amanda. Thank you. I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Michigan Transportation. You can find show notes and more on Apple Podcasts or Buzzsprout. I also want to acknowledge the talented people who help make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Devler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who proofs the content, Courtney Bates, who posts the podcast to various platforms, and Jackie Salinas, who transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.