Talking Michigan Transportation

An update on MDOT’s work with Michigan Central and rail service to Toronto

• Michigan Department of Transportation • Season 8 • Episode 251

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On this week’s edition of the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, a conversation with Peter Anastor, director of the Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT) Office of Rail, about where things stand for passenger rail service at Michigan Central in Detroit. 

Anastor also offers an update on plans to link passenger rail service in Michigan with service in Canada and create a link between Chicago and Toronto.

In October, MDOT, the City of Detroit and Michigan Central signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) to begin preliminary assessments for a new multimodal transportation hub located within the 30-acre Michigan Central Innovation District on a parcel just southwest of the station.

Key provisions include:

  • The partners will utilize a $10 million grant awarded to MDOT through the Federal Transit Administration's Rebuilding American Infrastructure with Sustainability and Equity (RAISE) grant program (now known as the Better Utilizing Investments to Leverage Development, or BUILD, grant program), plus an additional $30 million in state funds.
  • This proposed hub would include infrastructure for passenger rail and intercity bus service.
  • Decisions about final project designs, funding and timelines will be shared as the exploratory phase progresses. 
Jeff Cranson:

Hello and welcome to the Talk ing Michigan Transportation Podcast. I'm Jeff Cranson. This is the first episode of 2026, and I'm pleased to have been able to speak with Peter Anastor, who directs MDOT's Office of Rail. He offered an update with what I think are a lot of key points to know concerning the status of Michigan Central, the hub in Detroit that is going to soon be kind of a multimodal center with both passenger buses and passenger rail. But I wanted him to set some expectations about how long all these things are going to take. A lot of this is done with the help of a $10 million federal grant that was awarded to MDOT through the Federal Transit Administration and an additional $30 million in state funds. So he talked about where things stand and what this means in concert with a plan to someday extend passenger rail service from Detroit to Toronto. So basically, you could uh ride a passenger train from Chicago to Detroit, switch trains in Windsor, and then make your all the way to Toronto. And I know that a lot of people are very excited about that possibility, but I wanted him to make clear what still needs to happen. So I hope you enjoy the conversation. Peter Anastor. You have the honor, I hope, of being the first guest on the 2026 edition of the Talking Michigan Transportation Podcast. Uh, I really wanted to talk to you after we did a call recently with Senator Slack and staff. Um, they had a lot of questions about where things stand, both with the hub that we hope to establish, the multimodal hub at Michigan Central in Detroit. But together with that is the discussion about extending passenger rail service from Detroit to Toronto. So taking those things one thing at a time, just talk about uh, I guess first where things stand with the multimodal hub and you know the federal grant that's gonna help make that possible.

Peter Anastor:

It's great to be here and happy new year. And uh hopefully 2026 is a great year for rail. Yes. There is uh, you know, there's been uh I think a need by MDOT to really replace some of our facilities in the city of Detroit that house our um rail and inner city bus um operations. So it's a project that we've been um looking at for quite a few years on really looking at what the right location is in the city and and working with the city and the and the partners down there in Detroit and Southeast Michigan. And um when we started looking at you know options, you know, one of the things that was also happening at the same time was looking at our just rail services in general and how we wanted uh to look at some improvements and um some growth and expansion in our passenger rail service. So one of the uh the things that we've looked at is really um with that international service is where you know where would be a good location to house um a station for that service um because it doesn't align great with um our existing station up in New Center um in Detroit. So um in the past couple of years, we've had a lot of conversations with the folks at Michigan Central because they are really at the uh you know the gateway to the tunnel that would be used for that service. And in some of those conversations, they you know really shared their interest in and support of passenger rail and ensuring uh what was you know once Detroit's uh you know prime rail station could really be used for something like that again in the future. So so that was really encouraging. And um, when we started to to get more in-depth with conversations with them, it really um aligned well with this vision for MDOT, looking for a new, you know, um really multimodal um station facility in the city of Detroit. So those kind of discussions and and alignment really led us to uh to looking at that Michigan Central campus as a location uh for that multimodal station.

Jeff Cranson:

Real quickly, can you talk about why when this was initially looked at the new center area where the existing Amtrak station is north of downtown? Um, there was a lot of discussion about that, but why Michigan Central um seems to be and there seems to be consensus that that's a better location.

Peter Anastor:

Yeah, I think there was uh a few reasons. Um, you know, one just being really the surrounding activities in in each one of those areas. So up at New Center, you know, there's uh some schools and universities around there. Um so there were some concerns, I think, from the city and and some of the neighborhood, you know, residents and and some of the you know folks that have, you know, schools and things in that area of you know what a new kind of you know multimodal facility would bring when you're adding, you know, inner city bus service to the rail service and and kind of growing both of those services. So I just think there were some concerns around you know the impacts of that and and some of the um you know capacity and congestion of that area um and how that might work. Um, so that really I think opened the the door to looking again at some alternative sites. I think the Michigan Central site aligns a little better. Um, I know there's uh a larger vision by Michigan Central of that whole area um around the Michigan Central station and what that may look like. And I think it just uh seemed like there was more support um from the city of Detroit and from the Michigan Central folks um and some of the stakeholders to really um you know seem to be a better fit at that location.

Jeff Cranson:

Yeah, absolutely. And that's uh that that's what the public involvement process is all about, right? Taking in those comments and those considerations. So I think I'd I'd say that the system worked.

Peter Anastor:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think those partnerships is what is is really making this um you know project uh you know strong for success, is that you know, having the city Detroit and Michigan Central and MDOT, um and some of the some of the stakeholders really working together. And that you know, process started probably over a year ago, Jeff, at at this Michigan, you know, central location, um, really just looking at the feasibility of of some kind of uh intermodal, you know, multimodal station there. And in the past uh, you know, really a couple months, we've entered into uh a memorandum of understanding between those groups that really I think solidifies the commitment of that um project moving forward. And what that MOU is really going to do is it's gonna allow us to move forward on some of the preliminary engineering and and kind of preliminary design and environmental reviews that are gonna be needed at that location to really, I think, further um, you know, understand what that project's gonna entail, you know, what it might look like, you know, what are you know specific locations and how it's really gonna integrate, you know, into the rail and um, you know, the transportation systems around Detroit. So, you know, that MOU was entered into in October, and now we're working amongst those groups to really move forward to uh to find a contractor that's gonna really lead the efforts on that preliminary engineering and environmental review um aspects for that project.

Jeff Cranson:

So at the time that MOU was uh agreed upon and signed back in October, Governor Whitmer said her quote was today's MOU lays the foundation for a new multimodal transportation hub that will grow our regional economy, make downtown Detroit more vibrant, and connect residents and visitors to our communities. It builds on a historic investment in transit that I signed in my seventh balanced bipartisan budget. Let's keep getting it done. I think that's exciting, ambitious um to people that are uh fans of uh multimodal transportation, both transit and rail. Um, but your job is often setting expectations. Um the you know the policymakers say things and uh make these kinds of uh broad sweeping promises and all in good faith because you know we're all involved in this and we want it to happen. But talk about the challenges that you have when you have to go to to meetings and talk to people and say, look, this is complicated, it's gonna take time. You know, does that does that wear you down?

Peter Anastor:

Yeah, it's you get used to it after a while. Um but you know, I think understanding that you can't just uh flip a switch and uh you know go to the local uh you know train store and buy a couple uh buy some train equipment and start running a service, right? So there's a lot that's entailed with that on the international service in particular, which again I think is is really well aligned with this Michigan Central site. Um, you know, you have things like customs and and border approvals that have to happen. Um and since that's an international service, you know, not only do we need some some infrastructure and facilities on the U.S. side of the border, there's also uh quite a bit of infrastructure needed on the on the Canadian side of the border to really, you know, seamlessly align um the Canadian station and and the Detroit station um to really make that a feasible and and viable project. Um so we've been having conversations with our partners in Canada. Um, Amtrak has as well. Um, we've been talking with uh US Customs Border as well as the Canadian customs and border. Um, but really, you know, we need to solidify uh agreements with all those parties, um, identify funding to make sure that we can get all that investment that's required funded and moving forward. Um, and those pieces are really still coming together. So, you know, as we look at this project, um, you know, at the earliest, I think we're talking, you know, 2029 is when we may have, you know, service operating between those two countries and you know, out of that facility at at Michigan Central. And that assumes, Jeff, that you know, things, you know, go smoothly and there's not, you know, a lot of you know hurdles or hiccups that come along um in the upcoming years here. I don't think there'll be any hurdles here. Yeah, smooth sailing.

Jeff Cranson:

Stay with us. We'll have more on the other side of this important message.

MDOT Announcement:

Michigan law requires drivers to maintain at least 200 feet behind a snowplow when crews are plowing or treating roads and have their lights on. This does not apply when passing the snow plow. In addition, stay at least 20 feet away when the plow is stopped or at an intersection. Failure to do so can result in a fine of $100. The law is meant to ensure snowplow operators have the proper space and time to clear the roads. This makes Michigan's roads and neighborhoods safer to drive on and walk around throughout the winter. Always remember, snowplows need room to groom.

Jeff Cranson:

Talk about how that that would work. I mean, not that you've been involved in an international rail, passenger rail crossing in the past, but um it would it would obviously rely on a you know more than 100-year-old tunnel that exists, uh rail tunnel from Detroit to Windsor, but it would also involve a partnership with via rail in Canada. So when you talked about customs and border uh patrol and you know border considerations on the Canadian side, people would would the Amtrak train run through the tunnel and then passengers would disembark in Windsor and then board the via train? Is that how it would work?

Peter Anastor:

Yeah, the vision would be that we would have the main um customs facility at the Windsor station and Amtrak. Um Amtrak is the one that has an agreement with CPKC, which is the railroad that owns the tunnel, um, to basically utilize that tunnel um for passenger rail services. So currently they only run you know freight services through that tunnel. Um so this would be you know additional trains that are going to run for passenger service. But yeah, heading, you know, heading eastbound from Detroit into Canada, that train would, you know, obviously uh originate in Chicago, um, is the vision and and would have its normal kind of stops in Michigan, um, including Detroit. And then that train would essentially go through the tunnel, um, stop at that Windsor station. And then those passengers would disembark in Windsor. Um they would clear through Canadian customs um at that new Windsor facility. And then at that point, they would transition to uh to a via train that would you know take them from Windsor on to uh other parts in Canada, eastbound up to Toronto and on the westbound route. So if you're coming from Canada to Detroit, again, you would you know be on via service um from Toronto um through Windsor and then disembark again in Windsor. You would then clear U.S. customs. So our our U.S. customs border agents would you know travel over to Windsor anytime we had a passenger rail service or a train. They would clear all those um passengers through customs. They would board then the Amtrak train um in Windsor. Um and then once that you know Amtrak train left the station, there'd be no further um customs activities um once they cross into the US or Detroit. So that that Detroit station stop would just be like a normal um station stop um on any other rail route. Um and we wanted that efficiency just to not have people clear customs twice. So, you know, if you drive across the bridge, it's kind of that same vision, right? Um, depending if you're going eastbound or westbound, you either clear Canadian customs or US customs. Um, and we wanted to have that same efficiency in in the rail service. So this was kind of the model that that worked best. And since Amtrak has the agreement with CPKC to take their trains into Canada. Um, this was really the most most viable and efficient way to do this.

Jeff Cranson:

Well, and it can be done pretty pretty smoothly, pretty seamlessly. I mean, in Europe, you do this, you could go into several countries in the same day, right? So they've managed to set up a really good system for that. So talk a little bit more about what needs to happen on the the Amtrak side of things and and did the Canadian Pacific, Kansas City, Southern, I guess it's CPKC now, KC Limited, uh, did that recent consolidation factor into this one way or the other in terms of expediting the process?

Peter Anastor:

You know, I think that uh merger was a big reason that allowed Amtrak to have the opportunity to to kind of lay the groundwork for that agreement uh to use the tunnel. So as they were evaluating that CPKC partnership and the impacts around the country, I Amtrak and their foresight identified this as an opportunity, you know, to have as part of that agreement that Amtrak has with Canadian Pacific KC. So it was great they did that. It's you know, what's good for us is it's in it's in place. And what's also good for us is there's really not a lot of infrastructure that's needed at the tunnel, right? So it's an operating tunnel now and it carries freight, and there's you know not a lot that has to happen directly at the tunnel, which is which is really good news. So um it's good that that piece is is kind of in place.

Jeff Cranson:

So talk a little bit more about the the multimodal hub and what you see as a timeline for that to be fully functional.

Peter Anastor:

Yeah, I think you know, we'll probably spend the next year going through this preliminary engineering and and you know, NEPA environmental review. There is a federal grant that MDOT was awarded um for a you know a multimodal facility in Detroit. And we do have um FRA's approval essentially to, you know, to take that from a new center site to this Michigan Central site. But with that federal grant, there's some requirements around um environmental and and you know things that have to be evaluated as part of a project. So we'll probably spend the next year, you know, going through that process. But then after that, hopefully we'll have uh a design um and a budget more solidified on what that project's gonna cost and look like. And then, you know, we'll hopefully if you know everything looks good, we can move forward, you know, on constructing a facility at that point. Um, and that's probably another, you know, two-year process um to get through that. So, you know, again, I think we're looking at 28, 29 before, you know, all those pieces kind of come together, but we've got some good momentum now. And I think people are really excited about taking this next step.

Jeff Cranson:

Yeah, no, I think so too. I mean, I talked to a number of people that when they hear the prospect of being able to take a train to Toronto, get very excited about it. And uh I would hope, suspect that there might be just as many people in Toronto or the various stops along the way, the cities in Ontario between Toronto and Windsor that feel the same way about coming to Detroit or Chicago. What's the longer term prospects? Uh there's been discussion about you know an Amtrak line from Detroit to Toledo. Do you see that in the in the future?

Peter Anastor:

Yeah, there's, you know, right now we're in the middle of an FRA program called the Corridor Identification and Development Program or Corridor ID. And Michigan applied for all three of our Amtrak services in Michigan. So we have a service from Grand Rapids to Chicago, we have a service from Port Huron to Chicago, and then we have the service from Pontiac um to Chicago that passes through Detroit. Um, and that's where the international element would be. But luckily, Michigan was adopted or selected for all three of our services into that program. And we're really um going to take a look at all of our services and how we can improve reliability and efficiency on our services, um, as well as looking to expand and grow frequencies on those services. So that vision really looks at doubling all of our services. So um, you know, we have five round trips right now. Hopefully, when we have the full completion of that corridor ID, uh, we'll have up to 10 round trips um on our existing services. And then you mentioned uh, you know, a Detroit Toledo route. Um, that's actually uh a separate uh corridor project that uh was uh submitted in partnership with the Ohio Rail Development Commission that really would connect Cleveland, Toledo, and Detroit. So Ohio has the lead on that project, but we're, you know, very much a partner in that. That's a new corridor. So it's a little, um, it's going to be a little bit of a more of a process to kind of see that through. And um, since it's a new corridor, I don't really have a timeline on what that might look like. I think uh there's some basic elements on that project of you know, just routing and you know, working with the host railroads to understand, you know, where there may be capacity for something like that. But it is in that corridor ID program and it is uh an active project. So um that will certainly be part of the part of the mix as we look to grow um passenger rail service in in Michigan.

Jeff Cranson:

Well, you anticipated my follow-up because I was gonna ask about the prospect of being able to go to Cleveland by train from Detroit and see the Tigers beat the Guardians, just as we can go now to Chicago on either the pure market and see the Tigers beat the White Sox. So I like that idea. So thank you, Peter, for taking time to talk about this. We'll be updating things along the way. I just I want to continue to keep the excitement out there, but also set expectations. And I know that's your goal as well. So I appreciate it.

Peter Anastor:

Yeah, absolutely. And whenever you want to uh check in on these projects, just uh let me know and we can uh we can share some updates for everybody. Sounds good.

Jeff Cranson:

I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Michigan Transportation. You can find show notes and more on Apple Podcasts or BuzzSprout. I also want to acknowledge the talented people who help make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Debler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who proofs the content, Courtney Bates, who posts the podcast to various platforms, and Jacke Salinas, who transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.