A long-awaited celebration at the Blue Water Bridge

On this week’s Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, Amy Winn, the Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT) administrator at the Blue Water Bridge in Port Huron, talks about completion of the first of four components to fulfill long-time hopes to improve the flow of traffic at the bridge.

Officials from MDOT, the City of Port Huron and others are celebrating the completion of Component 1 and highlight a sound wall and pedestrian path completed as part of the larger plaza expansion project.

This component came with a $36.3 million investment, including a $25 million federal INFRA grant.

Also discussed was the bridge’s rich history.

Transcript

Why The Blue Water Bridge Matters

Jeff Cranson 0:07

Hello and welcome to the Talking Michigan Transportation Podcast. I'm Jeff Cranson. I had the opportunity to catch up with Amy Winn, who is the administrator of the Blue Water Bridge, which is the bridge that links port here on Michigan with Sarnia, Ontario. Very important part of our overall transportation network and been the subject of all kinds of challenges over the years, going back nearly 20 years with efforts to try to improve the customs plaza, where the customs and border patrol on the U.S. side have to inspect vehicles and check everything that's coming into the country post-911 and all of the security protocols that came with that. There were a lot more challenges, and there was at one time funding to expand that plaza and make things more efficient. And then the federal government uh said they didn't have the funding. It's been an on and off thing, but they are celebrating this week the completion of the first component of some early works that involved some connections there at the bridge on the U.S. side, making things more efficient, also some noise walls, which the community has wanted for a long time. And they're also going to, as they as they celebrate that completion, kick off the next component with some construction and a loop that'll create better access for the duty-free and for the customs and border patrol and their outbound building and the booths and the canopy. All those things are improvements that have long been needed and thanks to some grants from the federal government and a lot of hard work by the staff, a lot of community outreach and collaboration with city officials in Port Huron. Lots of meetings, community meetings with people showing up just to try to understand. The staff has done an impressive job, uh patience and fortitude in making this happen. So Amy had a lot of good things to say about how they got there and what's coming next. I hope you enjoy the conversation.

Amy Winn’s Path To The Bridge

Jeff Cranson 2:16

So again, I'm with Amy Wynn, who is the administrator of the Blue Water Bridge. Uh, Amy, I appreciate you taking time to talk. The the news peg here is a celebration, finally, for uh kind of a kind of a two-pronged thing, both to celebrate um the completion of one component of this long-awaited plaza project for the bridge on the U.S. side, and then also to kick off the next phase. Um, but first talk a little bit about you and your background and your trajectory and what brought you to this position.

Amy Winn 2:48

Sure. So um I've been with the state of Michigan for 29 years. Um, and I originally began my career while I was going to school full-time, and I was working full-time for the Department of State, which we all know is Secretary of State. Um, and I spent 22 years there, um, pretty much holding every position uh from the uh clerk level, which is the person that you walk into the office and and handle your transactions with, to the Metro Division Director, uh, which was my last uh title that I held before coming to MDOT. So I have been at Blue Water Bridge for nine years, just over nine years as of late July. Um, and you know, it was really kind of luck that that brought me here. Um when I saw the posting, it was closing that particular day. And I had not gone out to look for another job, but somebody uh had asked me if I would look at a position that was posted. It was a different position, and um I said that I would. And uh in so doing, I happened to come across the uh posting for Blue Water Bridge, and I grew up in St. Clair County, and um I spent a lot of summer days down by the water watching the boats with my parents, and um it was very intriguing to me. I'm not an engineer by trade. My education is in business, and um so I thought it was a long shot, but um I have come to find out nine years later that um this was the perfect transition for me. I absolutely love being at Blue Water. There's something different every day. We get a little taste of everything, and my business background has really proven to be an asset to Blue Water Bridge, um, especially with all of the major contracting that we've been doing uh as of late. It was it was kind of just a fluke, but here I am and and I'm enjoying every day of it.

Rebuilding Trust After Years Of Setbacks

Jeff Cranson 4:56

So I wondered if you, I mean, obviously you read the background and you knew from growing up in the community how important this bridge is as not just a structure and not just because of its functional use, but what it means in the community beyond that. Um it's just it has outsized importance in the city of Port Huron, and the department has been through a lot the last 20 years or so trying to accommodate the traffic, the all of the security concerns post-911, all those things. Thought in the mid-early 2000s that there was a plan going forward, then found out a series of times that the federal government couldn't afford to do what they needed to do in terms of a plaza, in terms of customs and border patrol. Um, and you knew all that. And you know, when you first started, we had to do an editorial board with the port here on Times Herald, and they've always been, you know, they reflect their community and they reflect the skepticism and the concerns about why MDOT has gone so far as to take out houses with this plan to build this and then get the money pulled out from under them by the federal government. And they don't care, they don't care if it's the feds or the state. All they know is um they feel like they're on the short end of the stick. So you knew all that and you still took it on.

Amy Winn 6:14

I did.

Jeff Cranson 6:14

I so talk about that.

Amy Winn 6:16

So I mean, I knew that I knew that there were challenges here, um, you know, to the extent of the depth of the issues with the project in previous years, I I really didn't have that awareness. I just kind of had the surface level awareness of of what was what had happened. And and you know, I knew that coming in here, we were gonna have to repair some relationships. And um, it was always a goal of mine. I in any position that I've been in, I take the the stance that I want to leave it better than I found it. Whatever it is that that means to that position and that agency in the community that that we that that we're in at that time. I mean, you know, we work for the public and I'm very committed to that. And so um, you know, we just we started slow when I first got here. I definitely needed to kind of learn the lay of the land and understand exactly what issues took place previously and, you know, figure out kind of what gates we needed to open and you know what relationships we really needed to repair. And it was a long road, Jeff, for us to get there. Um, but we did it. We did it. And, you know, we've always had our eye on the prize. And um, I think what's really helped us to overcome some of those previous obstacles and kind of the, you know, we weren't a community favorite, that's for sure. Um, you know, anytime you mentioned Blue Water Bridge, people just kind of got their noses crinkled up a little bit. And um, you know, I didn't really care for that. And so um our eye on the prize was just to, you know, be truthful, be transparent, do what we said we were gonna do, and not make promises that we couldn't keep. We just kind of went straight ahead with that. And I think it's gone a long way for both the you know local elected officials and certainly the community to to see that we're actually doing what we said we were gonna do in the way that we said we were going to do it.

Community Meetings And Hard Truths

Jeff Cranson 8:24

I think it's a it's a model really for community engagement. I think what you and Carrie Warren, who's been your project manager on this what the project we're talking about today, um, just establishing that trust and establishing those relationships and um knowing that sometimes you're gonna have to deliver bad news, but they still know that you're you're operating in good faith and you're you're being honest with them. And that's that's just I mean, you could probably teach a course on that now, right?

Amy Winn 8:48

Yeah, oh, for sure. I mean, it was kind of unheard of. We, you know, we had quite a few public engagement um sessions, and you know, we had over 300 people attend our public outreach sessions. And I mean, that that tells you right there how involved the community is, right? Because it's kind of unheard of. And um, not only did we want that, we were actively encouraging that within the community. We were going out, you know, and doing more than what we needed to do to ensure that people knew that they could come in and talk to us and they could see what it was that was going to be happening. And you're absolutely right. There were many a day that Carrie, myself, and other people on the project have, you know, taken those phone calls or had those um in-person conversations and had to say, I'm sorry, but the project isn't going to do this, or we're not going to be able to do that. Or yes, you are gonna have a little bit of, you know, chaos for a short period of time while we're working on certain things, but we promise we'll let you know, we'll keep you aware. And so, you know, it was nobody likes to tell anybody no, and community members don't like to hear no. But um, you know, the only thing that we could do is just be honest with the public and be very transparent. And although not always easy, I think it was the best way to go, especially given our history here in this community.

Jeff Cranson 10:15

Talk

The Pine Grove Intersection Turning Point

Jeff Cranson 10:16

about a specific moment in one of these meetings. What issue was on the table that you found to be just particularly challenging and really contentious?

Amy Winn 10:24

Yeah. So we, you know, with every project, you have you have your project area, right? That is that's already been kind of dictated for you. And there are certain things that you can and can't do within those project boundaries. And for us, there is an intersection here on Pine Grove that was, in quotations, a skewed intersection, right? It wasn't a pretty one, it was a point of contention for the community for a long time. It was a relatively expensive fix. Um, the locals didn't have money to fix it. The Huron TSC was not going to have money to fix this intersection, and it lied within our project boundaries. However, it wasn't a project, it wasn't a task that we were taking on with the project initially. But after our first public engagement session and the immense amount of feedback that we got from the public and the disheartening of the public when we said no, that's not part of the project for us to straighten that intersection was was really just kind of overwhelming. And, you know, we're here to make things better. Granted, uh, us being in this community is, you know, it can be difficult at times because we do cause a lot of traffic at different periods. So we sat back and said, is there any way that we can do this?

Jeff Cranson 11:53

Well, set up the scene. This is a Pine Grove is a city port here on City Street.

Amy Winn 11:59

Yes. And intersecting with it intersects, so it was right as our um where you came off of the exit ramp from the freeway. If you weren't going to Blue Water Bridge, you had to get off the freeway. This is where you exited, and then you either trans, you know, you either traversed Pine Grove by going north or south. And our traffic um certainly impedes and impacts that intersection. And the intersection itself was was skewed, so it didn't go straight through. It kind of had a little bit of a jog to it, and there also was not good access for non-motorized vehicles or non-motorized transportation. So, you know, there's a lot of people that like to ride bikes in this area in this community. There's a lot of people who walk, and there really wasn't a safe route for those folks to take.

Jeff Cranson 12:53

Because it's near a beautiful riverfront.

Amy Winn 12:55

Yes, absolutely. And um, and it really just it just it wasn't the best situation, right? And and so a lot of people have a lot of feelings about that intersection prior to us, you know, straightening it out. And we just went back to the table and said, can we find the money to do this? Um, and and if so, can we add this work to the project? And we figured out a way. So, you know, we we definitely invested about $20 million there. And um, but I can tell you there's not a day that I don't look out my office window here and look at that intersection and think that was the right thing to do. It's just made such a huge improvement to that main corridor.

Jeff Cranson 13:42

Please stay tuned. We'll be back with more talking Michigan transportation right after this.

MDOT Message 13:48

If you need to get out and stretch your legs, don't forget about the annual Mackinac Bridge Walk. Make your plans to attend the walk on Labor Day and take in some of the best views in the state of Michigan on the Mighty Mac. For more information, go to Mackinabridge.org slash walk.

A Milestone Celebration After Nine Years

Jeff Cranson 14:05

So, as people are listening to this on Thursday, August 6th, you will be celebrating and talk about what that is and and and what it means to you and your team to to finally arrive at this point. And after all that engagement that we talked about earlier and the collaboration with city officials, not to mention state and federal elected officials, um like kind of lay that out for us.

Amy Winn 14:29

Yeah, so I mean Thursday's a Thursday's a big day for us around here because it it literally is the culmination of the last nine years of work for me, and certainly, you know, nine plush years for people who were at this project beforehand. And um, you know, it it really just is a big celebration. It's it it is a testament to the hard work that all everybody has put into this project to get us where we are today. Because I'm gonna tell you, Jeff, there were a lot of days between 2017 and today that I didn't know if we were gonna get here. And and I'm a pretty I'm a pretty resolved person, you know. I I will say I can be stubborn at times, and um, and I wasn't sure that we were actually gonna make it to the finish line, but um, but we are. And um, so this is really just a celebration of repaired relationships, community involvement, um, you know, making things better for the people who who live here, doing what we said we were gonna do, and just standing, you know, standing tall and figuring out a way to get things done. And, you know, if that doesn't, if that doesn't speak to what Department of Transportation does, I'm not sure. I'm not sure what would, right? It's just it really is reflective of of what we're supposed to do at at the Department of Transportation.

Component One Results And Noise Walls

Jeff Cranson 16:01

So the most tangible thing, right, is the eastbound 94 and I-69 exit where you were talking about earlier to Pine Grove Avenue. And not only is that improved, you know, safer, more efficient operations, but um, you also have a sound wall there, right?

Amy Winn 16:18

We do, we do. So we've got component one, which we're celebrating substantial completion of. You know, that work began in the spring of 2025. Um, we anticipate full completion this fall. Um, and that was approximately $36.3 million of investment there. Um, you know, we we did a lot of things within that. We relocated exit 275, which is the ramp that I just spoke about. We reconfigured Pine Grove Avenue and 10th Ave intersection, which was that skewed intersection that that we've spent a lot of time talking about. Um, we rebuilt eastbound I-94 and 69 out by the MDOT uh maintenance facility. And we've also installed noise walls along both eastbound I-94, I-69, uh exit to Pine Grove, and along westbound I-94, I-69 business loop from Garfield Street back to Black River Bridge. So we we we did a lot. We did a lot in a very short period of time, which most folks didn't think we'd be able, you know, to accomplish because we did have a very aggressive schedule. That was one of the feedback items early on for people was your schedule is really aggressive. Do you really think you're gonna be able to do that? And um, we have some deadlines that we needed to hit because we also used $25 million of an infograph that was awarded to us in 2020 for the plaza expansion.

Jeff Cranson 17:47

That's a federal infographic, yeah.

Amy Winn 17:48

That is a federal infra grant, yes. So we had $25 million that was awarded to us, and um we had some timelines associated with that. And so uh we knew we had to be aggressive. Um, but we were able to get it done and use the 25 million all in component one. And um, so yeah, so we we took off a chunk and went running.

Jeff Cranson 18:10

So

Component Two Plaza Redesign And Duty Free

Jeff Cranson 18:11

let's talk about what's next because you're this is this is kind of a unique event where you're you're celebrating the completion of component one, and then you're right away gonna go ahead and break ground, celebrate the beginning of component two. So, what all goes into component two?

Amy Winn 18:28

So, component two is approximately $300 million investment for us. Um, it primarily focuses on expanding and reconfiguring the entire southern portion of the plaza. So, the work that we're going to get done there is we're gonna relocate all of the tolling operations and facilities. Um, we're gonna build an outbound inspection facility for U.S. customs and border protection. Uh, we're gonna relocate duty-free Americas, which is huge. Um not only to lots of people, yes, but definitely to to our community. Um, and then uh we are gonna relocate the local access ramp to the west side of the plaza, where currently it's on the east side and again interferes more than we'd like it to with with our regular commuters trying to traverse the from east to west, you know, north to south, I'm sorry, of of town, both from downtown and to the to the uh Fort Graschett area.

Jeff Cranson 19:27

So talk about how that will improve efficiency of travel and just make things easier for people both, you know, getting on the bridge and getting off the bridge.

Amy Winn 19:37

Yeah. So the thing that we always heard the most about through the from the community, and I completely understand why, was that Duty Free America's sat in a location that made all patrons and truck driver, truck uh travelers, they had to get off of the freeway, come down Pine Grove, and enter into the Duty Free America shop, which forced all that traffic to go onto our regular main line system here, which is the thoroughfare from north to south. If you want to go from downtown to Fort Gratiot, you have to go through Pine Grove and you have to pass the Blue Water Bridge. And it caused a real problem because we couldn't stop people from going to shop at duty free. And um, and the only way for them to get there was to interfere with regular traffic. And so we caused a lot of backups at very inopportune times that was, you know, a cause for concern, not only um because of delays and traffic, but certainly safety first. Um, you know, you never want to try and um have a situation where you have people backed up in traffic and in a um, you know, a very short length. I mean, you literally got off of the ramp, immediately turned left, went a very short distance, and had to turn left again to get into duty free. And so um, so we are very excited that that's gonna get fixed. Yeah, the more everybody's very excited.

Jeff Cranson 21:10

The more traditional model would be that you can pull off the plaza, do that, and get right back on the freeway, right? Without having to leave.

Amy Winn 21:19

So our our new our new plaza incorporates duty free right within. Um we call it our our loop or our plaza loop, and um nobody will have to get off of the freeway in order to visit the duty free America. Tolling operations are gonna be separated, which is gonna allow for a little bit more space for CBP to perform their operations on our current plaza. And um, also we're gonna have an outbound inspection uh space for CBP, which improves safety and allows for adequate space for the trucks to safely pull over and allow CBP to do their homeland security. Security activities. So yeah, we're we're making a lot of improvements.

Jeff Cranson 22:04

So

Tolling Tech And CBP Operations

Jeff Cranson 22:05

in addition to what you're able to do with trucks and inspections and I guess even X-ray, those those trucks, are there are there technologies that are going to be in place to make things more efficient just for the regular vehicle traveler?

Amy Winn 22:19

Yes. Yes. So we're hoping. You know, we we've already instituted in our tolling operations prepaid accounts for both commercial travelers and regular commuters. And that allows for pretty much just a seamless transition through our tolling operations. There's no need to fully stop and make a payment. They can kind of just continue to slow roll through, which efficiency-wise, uh obviously the less stops, the quicker things are moving. And so um, but there there are additional things that we can do to even improve that further. So there's some tolling technology that we're looking at adding um that you know is a little bit more uh efficient as far as operations go. And um there's also some, it's my understanding from CBP that there's also some improvements to how they're going to be able to manage their operations also. Um so as you can imagine, those things are are kept pretty close to to the chest for CBP. And so, you know, we we certainly respect their position here and you know they have a really important job to get done too.

Power Capacity And The DTE Substation Move

Jeff Cranson 23:32

So all in that next component, the groundbreaking that you're that you're doing as part of this, uh, how much will we have invested in that?

Amy Winn 23:42

So component two is you know, it's approximately 300 million. Um, we've got component one, which was the 36 and some change. Um, we also had a $35 million investment of Blue Water Bridge funds into the relocation of the DTE substation, um, which is another huge improvement for the community. That substation was was aging, and um, you know, certainly uh it was in everybody's best interest to try and move that out of the middle of the plaza. And so we did invest 35 million there towards that.

Jeff Cranson 24:20

Is that is that aesthetics as much as anything?

Amy Winn 24:23

Aesthetics? No. Uh I mean aesthetics, yes, but it it really just gives the the community more capacity. Okay, well, that's a big deal. Yeah, it's a huge deal. Like you say, it was aging infrastructure and it just gives more capacity, as we know everything, you know, these days requires some sort of electricity, and you know, even more, even more so headed into the future. And so um this just allows for more um more efficiencies and hopefully less outages, right? Because it's brand new, it's brand new infrastructure and it services a large area. Um, so it's not just city of Port Huron proper. Um, you know, it it it expands itself quite a bit south and quite a bit north.

Jeff Cranson 25:14

So Yeah, there might be some discussions going on about electricity and capacity. I just a few. And elsewhere.

Funding Components Three And Four

Jeff Cranson 25:23

Well, let's let's look ahead because you know tomorrow, um, as happy as everybody will be, you're gonna get questions about, you know, well, what else? Because if there's four components and we're, you know, celebrating the first and kicking off the second, then what happens with the next two?

Amy Winn 25:38

Sure. So components three and four, those are roughly a $466 million investment. Um, so you know, as we know, things do not become less expensive as as time goes on, they just become more expensive. So our $466 million does try and take into account some escalated costs, you know, um for future building, but um that number can continue to go up, and it's not a small number by any means. Um, right now we continue to work with our federal partners because the majority of that infrastructure is um set aside for CBP operations. And so um, you know, in order for us to be able to continue to move forward kind of seamlessly through these components, um, we we need their commitment to be able to occupy that space and and they're working hard to try and come up with some ways to do that. So um, you know, components three and four will go as soon as as soon as the funding is is available, and um, you know, hopefully we can kind of continue that work consecutively. But you know, one of the things we did with this project was to ensure that we built each component with independent utility. And what that means is each component can stand alone. Um, it doesn't depend on another component for it to have improvements. And um, and so uh we were very careful in the planning stages. Um, Carrie and I both joke that previous us, meaning four or five years ago, were were really smart when when we you know determined that these these components needed independent utility. So um, because you never know, you know, you just you just never know what what's gonna happen. Priorities change all the time, and um, we just need to be ready and prepared for that.

Jeff Cranson 27:34

So well, no, when they built the first span in the 30s, they probably realized shortly after that they needed more capacity, and then it took another 60 years to get another uh another span, right? But I'll bet you I'll bet you soon after the first one opened, they said, you know what, we should have gone bigger.

Amy Winn 27:50

Yeah. Oh, I mean, always, right? You're not even done building something and you're looking back and thinking, man, I could have used a little bit of this and a little bit of that, right? But um, you know, what we do is is we do the best we can with the opportunities that we have available to us. Everybody would love to be able to build and construct things perfectly with an open checkbook. But the reality is that's just not the way things work. And so, you know, that's why it's so important for us to really concentrate on what's important and make sure that we're spending every penny in the best way possible.

Gordie Howe Bridge Impact On Traffic

Jeff Cranson 28:26

So there's another international crossing, um, hour and a half south of you that uh has been in the spotlight recently. Um it's only been nine days. Um, have you noticed any different in your traffic volumes, any change in your traffic volumes since the Gordia How International Bridge opened? I'm thinking it's too early, but it's a question we've been asked. So I kind of thought I'd throw it out there.

Amy Winn 28:48

Yeah, no, uh we actually have not, and and we've been watching very closely. You know, we we anticipated that some of our wide-load commercial traffic and you know, some of our hazardous material um crossings may, you know, may fluctuate. Um, but as of right now, uh we are holding steady. So we we have not really realized any decreases in traffic and and more the majority of our passenger traffic has been picking up, which is ironic, right? Our truck traffic has stayed pretty consistent across the board, um, even during COVID, right? Truck traffic kept coming, but the passenger traffic, the people that were moving about slowed down. And we've never really fully recovered from that, but we have seen double digits, even over 20% increases as of late in our in our passenger traffic, which is fantastic. Yeah. Um yeah, you know, it's it's a little unexpected, but you know, hard these things are hard to predict.

Jeff Cranson 29:50

Well, it's not it's not completely redundant either. You've got different destinations, you know, different routes, different objectives for the two bridges and and the travelers that are gonna go up 69 anyway, up to 69 and 94. Well, Amy, thank you for talking about this. Congratulations to you and your team. I know this this feels really good, and you should definitely take at least a couple days to take a deep breath and celebrate, and then you know, think about what's next, I guess.

Amy Winn 30:17

Yeah, yeah. We've we've got a lot of work to get done, and so we're as excited as ever. But yeah, thank you. Thanks for having

Thanks For Listening And Where To Find More

Amy Winn 30:24

me.

Jeff Cranson 30:24

I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Michigan Transportation. You can find show notes and more on Apple Podcasts or BuzzSprout. I also want to acknowledge the talented people who help make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Debler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who poops the content, and Jacke Salinas, who posts the podcast to various platforms, and transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.